HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes - 05/09/1985 - Committee of the WholeCOMMITTEE MEETING OF THE WHOLE
THURSDAY, MAY 9, 1985
A Committee Meeting of the Whole was called to order by Mayor
Busse on Thursday, May 9, 1985 at 7:30 P.M. in city hall. The following
Aldermen were in attendance: Nolan, Teta, Smith, Snell, Serritella,
McClatchey. Absent: Bolger, Lieder. City staff in attendance were
Supt. of Public Works Halvensleben, Building & Zoning Officer Rosing,
City Clerk Gilpin.
Zoning Board Members in attendance were Jim Fouse, Annie Mae
Cuda, Robert Jessup, Fred Kupstis, Harry Semrow, Gary Schaefer, Donna
Tobeck. Absent: None. Plan Commission Members in attendance were Bill
Buhrman, Lynne Donarski, Earl Osmon, Don Toole, Joan Schwegel, Tom
Uttich, Don Wedekind and Bill Wilson. Absent: Sandy Eckstein and Dick
Hoover.
Mayor Busse announced that the purpose of the meeting was to
introduce the various boards to each other, have everyone get to know who
the participants are and increase communications so that all City Boards
are on the same wave length and have the same objectives in mind. He
reported that the pay structure for Zoning Board and Plan Commission
Members had been increased effective May 1, 1985. The Zoning Board
Chairman would receive $25 and board members $20 per meeting, the Plan
Commission Chairman would receive $20 and board members $15 per meeting.
After everyone introduced themselves, Mayor Busse asked that all
participate by voicing their concerns regarding their respective boards.
Some of the Mayor's concerns about the Plan Commission were:
What does the Commission feel its role is; Is it been used effectively;
Should the Commission be used for long rang planning; Is the Compre-
hensivE: Plan still current and valid and if so, how do we implement it
and measure our performance against those goals and objectives; If the
goals aren't current, should they be reviewed and acted upon; Is the
Comprehensive Plan utilized to the best of its objectives; How often is
it used by the Plan Commission; How could future planning be implemented;
Are we giving fair consideration to future planning; Should just indi-
vidual plats be considered as they come before the Plan Commission or
should future planning be incorporated into the Plan Commission's role;
Should an annual report be made as to the progress of the goals and
objectives ?
Regarding the Zoning Ordinance, the Mayor was concerned about
what could be done to improve it; Should commercial setbacks and
off-street parking be changed; If too many variations are being request-
ed, does it indicate that the Zoning Ordinance should be changed; By
putting amendments on top of amendments and with two or three different
administrations suggesting amendments, is the flavor of the whole ordi-
nance still in tact; should the whole Zoning Ordinance be professionally
reviewed and suggested revisions brought before the Zoning Board?
Another matter the Mayor felt should be discussed was: Where is
the City going on growth; Are we looking at a pro -growth situation, and
if so„ should some constraints be suggested in various situations and
areas. He felt the boards should come up with suggestions as to, where
the City should be in five and ten years. Mayor Busse said the bottom
line is that all boards should be working together towards the same
objectives and by keeping the lines of communication open, hopefully
these objectives can be realized.
Joan Schwegel, Chairman of the Plan Commission, mentioned that
the Plan Commission must work within the rules and regulations of the
ordinances. She felt it would help to have the City Attorney present at
its ft etings. The Plan Commission enjoyed working with Bob Grossman when
the update of the City's Comprehensive Plan was done, she said. They
would have liked him to be present for some of the previous planning
meetings on large subdivisions which came to them for consideration. The
Plan Commission received many ideas from Bob Grossman which were not
coverE!d in the ordinances and which related to what cities would have to
do to consider building homes in the future. For instance, in the future
maybe all homes should not be restricted to the same setback line but
placed so that homes could take advantage of solar energy. It was her
opinion that the Plan Commission would like to consider using the ser-
vices of a professional planner for present and future planning.
Thursday, May 9, 1985 page 2
Plan Commission Member Bill Wilson felt that the day to day
changes and challenges could be handled as they arise. However, long
range planning has not been addressed by the Plan Commission mainly
because they don't know how. Some of the members have attended seminars
at Elgin Community College and McHenry Community College. They mentioned
problems which could arise in the future with overlapping taxing
districts concerning shopping centers as well as overlapping mile and
half boundary jurisdictions. At the present time, Prairie Grove, Wonder
Lake, Bull Valley and Sunnyside have overlapping mile and half boundary
jurisdictions with the City of McHenry. Wilson felt some planning should
be done in the future considering these matters as well as traffic
flows. It was his opinion that setbacks along highways should be given
special consideration since in t;ie future if these highways are widened
it could effect the setbacks of businesses along those routes. He also
felt that the 2000 Year Plan should be reviewed annually and updated
every two years. He mentioned that when the 2000 Year Plan was origin-
ally done, the Plan Commission requested that a Light Commercial District
be established. However, when it got to the City Council, they hit a
brick wall and were told that it was not necessary.
Plan Commission Member Don Wedekind said that several yE!ars ago
he asked if the Plan Commission was to have the total planning function
responsibilities for the City. He never received an answer. If the City
Council wants the Plan Commission to have total planning responsibility,
the Plan Commission can move out in several different directions. He
mentioned that not one of the City projects had come to the Plan Com-
mission for review --expansion of the Public Works Garage, Knox Park
development, and location of various Wells had never been brought to
their attention. He felt that it was up to the Council to decidE! if the
Plan Commission should act as planners or just review plats as they come
in. Mayor Busse felt the City Council should either give the Plan Com-
mission the tools to do its job effectively or be content with the way it
is operating now. Wedekind stressed that the Commission was willing to
do whatever the Council wanted, but it wanted specific instructions as to
exactly what its role should be.
Wedekind pointed out that they are not a Planning Commission but
are a Plan Commission responsible for the City plan. However, he felt
they show d be a Planning Commission. Plan Commission Member Lynne
Donarski said the authority the Plan Commission thought it had was
disputed on several occasions when it got to the City Council. Also,
several times the Plan Commission was called to hear a proposal being
presented to the City Council and was told it was a mere formality going
before the Plan Commission because this was what the City Council was
going to accept. She resented her time being wasted on matters such as
this. Mayor Busse said that a new administration was now in effect. The
new Council might make some mistakes but they are all willing to learn
and work together.
Plan Commission Member Donald Toole stated the Commission tries
to do what is best for the City of McHenry. They look at aesthetics,
safety, future traffic conditions and encourage the establishment of
businesses to create some tax money for the City. Wedekind commented
that the City Council should redefine the Plan Commission duties and out-
line exactly what the Council expected from the Plan Commission.
Plan Commission Member Tom Uttich said he had only been on the
Board one year and at every meeting he attended it was just to direct
themselves to an immediate problem, to approve plats as presented. It
seemed to him that this was approving not planning. He felt that the
Commission should do more future planning.
Mayor Busse said the City Council was trying to solicit input
from the Plan Commission, Zoning Board and local citizens to formulate a
future growth plan for the City. That was the purpose of meeting
tonight, to stimulate interest and have a brain storming session. He
felt the Plan Commission's idea for a Light Commercial classification was
well taken since it is very effectively used in other communities.
Possibly the Plan Commission could be involved in developing
some sort of a common theme in the downtown areas to help merchants
enhance their properties, Busse said. He thought the goal of the Plan
Commission should be a planning function, to put some practical ideas on
paper that people could use when they sit down with their architects when
they want to improve their stores.
Thursday, May 9, 1985 page 3
Lynne Donarski commented that she felt when the petitioner had
their Attorney present at the Plan Commission Meetings, the City Attorney
should also be present to assist the Plan Commission. The other Plan
Commission Members concurred with her statement.
Mayor Busse asked if it bothered the Plan Commission or Zoning
Board when Aldermen were in attendance at their meetings. Plan Com-
mission Members said it did not bother them. The only time any Aldermen
showed up at its meetings was when the Light Commercial District was
discussed.
Zoning Board Member Harry Semrow said he felt it was important
that the Aldermen come to the Zoning Board Meetings so that they would
hear and see the testimony and evidence upon which the Zoning Board made
its recommendations. Many times when the petition was up before the City
Council for decision, the Petitioners' Attorneys will bring additional
witnesses and put on different testimony than what the Zoning Board
heard. Therefore, the Zoning Board's recommendation was either
questioned or overturned.
Zoning Board Member Anna Mae Cuda said she felt not everyone was
on the same wave length. The Plan Commission has a year 2000 plan which
they are to abide by but if something more expedient comes up, the City
Council disregards that plan. The Plan Commission then feels frustrated
and used. She said the Zoning Board Members feel the same way. They
make their decisions on the testimony that is brought before them, which
is what they have to work with, and then when it goes to the City Council
for final approval there is either a complete reversal or additional
testimony is brought before the Council that the Zoning Board has not
heard. She felt that the Zoning Board, the Plan Commission and the City
Council were not all operating on the same wave length as to what the
specific needs of the City are. If you want people to work for the good
of the City and to work on City Commissions and City Boards, they should
be mad'le to feel their input is valuable to the Council. If they feel
that all they do is window dressing, you won't get capable people to
serve, she said.
Zoning Board Member Cuda said maybe our ordinances are not tight
enough so that other attorneys find holes in our ordinances and then try
to wiggle through. Part of the reason we get snowed so often is because
maybe those Attorneys know they can get away with something, she said.
Since retained personnel money pays for Attorney and Engineers fees, she
felt the various boards should be able to use them more readily.
Chairman Jim Fouse of the Zoning Board mentioned that many times
the Zoning Board has made recommendations to the City Council and then
the petitioner brought additional evidence before the City Council which
he did not feel was right because everything the Zoning Board takes as
testirriony or evidence is under oath. That is not required when they
appear before the City Council. Zoning Board Member Semrow felt that
there should be some rule that no witnesses should come before the City
Council who have not come previously to the Zoning Board because then the
City Council is basing their opinion on things that the Zoning Board has
not hE!ard.
Chairman Fouse mentioned several zoning items he felt should be
changE!d. 1) Automobile service stations should be removed from the 6-1
classiification. 2) Indoor theatres should be removed from the B-1 clas-
sification and put into B-2 recreation district. 3) There is cummulative
zoning in B-3 which allows all B-1 and B-2 uses. He felt the cummulative
zoning should be eliminated and each district should stand on its own.
4) Eliminate the B-4 classification because Fouse has been on the Board
for 10 years and has never had anyone request a B-4 classification.
Since all the uses in B-4 are also in 3-3, he didn't feel it was neces-
sary. 5) The Mayor should appoint a Vice -Chairman as well as a Chairman
of the Zoning Board of Appeals. 6) If the Board gives an affirmative
recommendation, the rules do not say what vote of the City Council is
needed to approve it. Usually it is just a simple majority but Fouse
felt it should be mentioned in the Zoning Ordinance. The Ordinance does
say that if the City Council overrides the Zoning Board recommendation it
takes a two-thirds vote of the Council. However, it does not stipulate
what vote is needed to concur with the Zoning Board recommendation.
Fouse stressed that it was very important that the City Attorney be at
all Zoning Board Hearings.
Zoning Board Member Fred Kupstis recalled that two years ago, a
meeting similar to this combined session was held. All of the concerns
Mr. (Fouse mentioned tonight were brought up at that meeting. The
Thursday, May 9, 1985 pagE! 4
matters were thoroughly discussed and the Zoning Board was given to
understand that meetings would be held with the Plan Commission and the
City Council on all of these concerns. However, the only action that
resulted from that meeting two years ago was that an Ordinance was passed
governing portable signs. He hoped it would not take another two years
before action was taken on these concerns of the Zoning Board of Appeals.
Busse agreed that two years was a long time to wait for action
but he did comment that many of the suggestions made at that meeting two
years ago were incorporated into the city's zoning petition for
off-street parking that was coming before the Zoning Board shortly for
amendment of the Zoning Ordinance. In November of 1984, the City did
adopt a BOCA Code Ordinance which was also recommended at the meeting two
years ago.
Kupstis commented possibly the Chairman of each Board should
present what they would like to see changed and present it to the Coun-
cil. Then in a reasonable amount of time the Council could get back to
the Boards with what they wanted done. If another meeting is then
necessary for an update, another combined meeting could be held. He did
not want to see another two years pass without any action being taken.
Semrow agreed and said a timeframe or deadline should be set to encourage
quicker action.
Alderman Serritella commented that she did not feel it was right
that the petitioner should appear before the City Council with testimony
other than what the Zoning Board heard. It was her opinion the City
Council should base its decision on what was presented to the Zoning
Board of Appeals and nothing else. The other Aldermen agreed.
Alderman McClatchey commented he felt the Plan Commission was a
wasted body as it is now and should be given some authority to be a total
planning body instead of just a plat review board.
Alderman Smith felt that the Plan Commission may be to concerned
about what happens after they handle a project. Once the Plan Com-
mission approves a project, it has done its job and should no longer be
concerned with how that project is handled even though they might not
like it. He felt that Aldermen should not be on Plan Commission or
Zoning Boards. The reason for having different advisory boards is so more
people can have input into a project before the Council makes a deci-
sion. He agreed with Serritella that no other information should be
presented at the City Council Meetings after the Zoning Board Hearing is
finished. He also felt the City Attorney should be present at meetings
of the Plan Commission and Zoning Board but not at the meetings where
just general discussion is held.
Alderman Teta suggested that the Chairman of each Board set out
what they feel they should be doing. Put the recommendations in writing
and get them before the Council for action. Specifically mention the
immediate concerns that they would like the Council to act on before we
meet again, he said.
Fouse commented that most of the Zoning Boards' immediate con-
cerns were expressed at this meeting tonight. He would like to have the
City Attorney submit a petition to the Zoning Board for final action to
amend the ordinance on those aforementioned concerns.
Chairman Schwegel said she felt a planner should be on staff who
could consult with the Plan Commission on an "as needed" basis. However,
she stressed that the planner should be someone that the City Council
could accept and work with because the last time the Council hired a
planner who worked well with the Plan Commission, the City Council would
not accept his recommendations.
Busse asked that the Chairmen of the Boards set some goals and
reduce their ideas to immediate concerns so the Council can act on them
as soon as possible. Concerns that might take more time should also be
itemized and submitted. The Council could then look at the situation and
redefine the duties of the various boards. He stressed the need to keep
the lines of communication open so everyone can work toward the same
goals for the future good of the City. He asked the Chairmen to get back
to him within 60 days with their recommendations.
Mayor Busse adjourned the meeting at 9:28 P.M.