HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes - 5/23/1994 - Public Works Committee PUBLIC WORKS �OMMITTEE MEETING
`-- 7:30 PM - MAY 23, 1994
COUNCIL CHAMBERS
Stop Signs on Orleans
McHenry Shores Water Company
In Attendance: Alderman Bolger; Alderman Baird; Alderman Bates; Mayor Cuda; City
Administrator, Jerry Peterson; Public Works Director, Fred Batt and the following residents:
Judy Gertz, Jim Davis, Laura Davis, Jim Murphy, Patrick Gertz.
Chairman Bolger called the meeting to order at 7:30 PM and stated that the purpose of the
meeting was to discuss traffic problems on Orleans and commented that there is no easy solution
to this problern. Orleans is a through street from Route 120 to Route 31 serving the Brake Parts
factory. Orleans also liiilcs the shopping areas of Wal-Mart, K-Mart and Target to Jewel and
Eagle. Tl�e C'hairman noted there is a concern for the safety of the children in the area. The
residents were asked if they had any solutions.
Judy Gertz distributed a map indicating options where she felt stop signs could be placed. She
said that three (3) additional stop signs would slow down the traffic.
Laura Davis did a count with showed the following: Friday - May 20 between 3:40 PM and 3:50
�, PM -- 81 cars; Sunday - May 22 between 11:42 AM and 11:52 AM -- 78 cars; Monday - May
23a between 8:10 AM and 8:20 AM -- 49 cars. She stated these counts were not done during rush
hour or even the busiest times of the day.
Residents were concerned because of school bus pick up and drop off locations. Children living
south of Orleans must cross Orleans to get to the bus stop. She continued by stating there are
no cross walks, however, there are double yellow lines in the center of the street and charged that
several cars "fly down" Orleans.
Chairman Bolger asked if Prestwick gets a lot of traffic compared with Orleans and Judy Gertz
replied yes. "We get people on Prestwick who are trying to avoid Orleans and the stop sign at
Leonard." "C�irs continually speed down Prestwick." "The residents have notified the Police."
Alderman Bates talked with Jerry Peterson and Fred Batt who informed him that there is no good
solution to this problem because the purpose of Orleans is to be a cut through street. "The entire
subdivision has problems because of the way it was built." "It should not have been put in the
way it is." "Tlie King Farm property will also add two to three times more traffic." "Stop signs
might back up the traffic and compound the problem long range." "Right now there is no short
term solution."
�
One of the residents stated that he's lived in McHenry for 4 years and previously had lived in
� Des Plaines. The solution to the problem in Des Plaines was to place stop signs on each corner:
It worked because people avoided using that street because they didn't want to stop so often.
Chairman Bo(ger stated that he drove through the area at the speed limit and was passed by a car.
The residents expressed concern for their children's safety. They feel the only way action by the
Police Department will be taken is if a child is injured. The amount of cars do not let the
children cross the street. They feel the answer is to deter people from going through the
subdivision. "rhere was discussion surrounding placing a stop sign on Donovan, but if that were
the case, people would have difficulty getting out of their driveways, according to the residents.
Chairman Bolger asked if there are many trucks and Judy Gertz responded there has been a semi
traveling Orleans every morning. Bolger asked if there is a sign posted concerning truck traffic
and Jerry Peterson stated there is a weight limit sign. Bolger mentioned that this is a through
street similar to Lillian or Anne street but they don't have the same ingredients as this subdivision
has with the factory and all the shoppers. This area has been developed above and beyond what
anyone anticipated. He was sure that we could do something, but doesn't know what the answer
is going to be. Bolger does not object to stop signs. If they will save children's lives he doesn't
care if there are 100 of them.
Mayor Cuda feels the long term solution is to get the traffic off Orleans. He is surprised the
residents are only requesting three (3) stop signs. What you want to do is slow down the traffic
� and make it safer for the neighborhood. Eighty-one (81) cars in 10 minutes is a phenomenal
arr�ount of traffic. Alderman Bates interjected that this count is very conservative. He is not
against the stop signs but would like to see the community come up with a better solution. He
would be in favor of giving up the immediate stop sign for a better solution.
Chairman Bolber inquired about an Oak Drive crossing of the railroad tracks. He was inforined
that the Commerce Commission refused a second crossing so near to Orleans. It was suggested
that Orleans be turned into a cul-de-sac. One of the residents suggested that before developing
the King Farm we should get the road put through so the backs of the houses butt up to the road
so there is no access.
Jerry Peterson stated that Orleans was designed as a collector street. It was a mistake to have
the driveways fronting on that road and we have learned from the mistake. We did make an
appeal to the [CC. The Chicago Northwestern has said they will oppose additional railroad
crossings because they would be too close together. We don't want to isolate the subdivision
from police and fire access. There is the possibility of extending Oak Drive and there is a lift
station that would need to be moved. I don't think the residents of Lakeland Park would be in
favor of that solution. There are no easy solutions. Mayor Cuda stated that Orleans is more than
a collector road. Orleans has turned into a major artery in McHenry.
One of the residents asked if we could make Orleans into a speed trap. Peterson responded that
if there was direction from the Council to provide additional attention to Orleans because of the
� unique nature, we could have additional patrols there. Bates said the Poliee are effective, but
how often can they do that? Bates asked if we could make this area one of the Community
� Police areas? Peterson responded that the next area for Community Police is Lakeland Park.
Bates pointed out that the Police were effective on Front Royal Drive.
Chairman Bolger stated that we need to make this street uncomfortable to use. Then if people
are willing to go 25 mph and stop 2 or 3 times, then it's OK. He feels we need some stop signs
in there.
Alderman Baird has requested additional policing in his area and it is taking some of the officer
off the streets. Generally, Community Policing has been well received. He would have a
problem if this Council directed us to give such consideration just to this. In the short term, he
believes a cotiple of stop signs would be effective. He doesn't like the way the stop signs are
laid out on the handout. Judy Gertz thought it would be best to zig-zag. Baird pointed out that
if we have too many stop signs there will be another group complaining about that too. Baird
also stated that we need to remember this traffic situation when we extend Dartmoor. It was
suggested by Alderman Baird that two (2) stop signs be put in -- one on Prestwick and one on
Donovan and we could always add others.
It was suggested that Fred Batt and Chief Joyce go out and recommend something to the
Committee along the lines of what we have discussed and bring it back to the Council for
approval.
Mayor Cuda said that he appreciated the resident's efforts and the map. Would like Batt and
� Chief Joyce make their recommendations for a stop sign. This is a unique situation and need to
deter other people from using Orleans. Judy Gertz asked if she can be advised when this would
go before the Council. Bates said there would be no problem. Batt stated that he couldn't make
a recommendation to the Council which would involve placement of unwarranted stop signs.
Bates pointed out that there is a potential problem with cars backing up on the railroad tracks.
The residents pointed out that the train goes through twice a week. Baird stated that there may
be a new problem if a new train station is built.
Chairman Bolger stated the solutions we reach may be temporary. We should ask Chief Joyce
and the Public Works Director to look at the situation and report back. Something will be done.
In addition to stop signs we need Police. We need to make it unpleasant for people to go
through there and not obey the law. We have may have to put up some innovative signs through
there. He understands the resident's position and it is more serious than any other place in town.
We want to address this problem. A resident asked if it is legally possible to restrict travel to
local residents only? Peterson responded that in some cases the street can be closed. There are
possibly ways to discourage traffic, but would want to look into that more. Batt suggested that
Orleans is wide enough to create a parking lane on one side of the street. An 8 foot lane could
be striped for parking. Batt feels narrower lanes make people slow down. Batt also stated that
statutorily additional stop signs are not warranted. One of the residents responded that there are
stop signs all over the City that are not legal. Batt reiterated that he is not going to make a
recommendation to the Council that includes additional stop signs.
�
Mayor Cuda announced there would be something on the Agenda for June 1 st. Baird said that
� he thinks we have to deter some of the traffic from going through there. He doesn't think it was
designed well enough and he will lean on what Alderman Bates has to say and he will support
it.
Alderman Bates asked that the Committee look into the condition of Oak Street between Petersen
Park and Orl�;ans. Batt responded that Mark Towne has a preliminary plat pending for McHenry
City Center �ubdivision which should solve the problem at no cost to the City.
The next itern discussed was the McHenry Shores Water Company. A resident brought in a
sample of water which was clearly discolored. Alderman Baird discussed starting some
emergency h<�ok up to the system. He would like a long term solution, but needs a game plan.
Baird suggested extending water mains block-to-block and take Mathews' customers until he
couldn't afford to run it. Baird asked Batt if there is a franchise agreement. Batt responded he
has no franchise agreement. Bolger said the solution is to get the people up in arms to contact
the EPA and force Mathews to do something. Baird stated that we can't allow him to continue
this. Baird suggested an emergency hookup; take his customers; Sunrise View Drive has about
10 residents would be interested. Bolger was concerned that the residents may not be organized
enough to accomplish their goals. The residents need water samples and go enmasse to the EPA.
Bolger was also concerned because many areas of town do not have city water. Baird feels we
should put pressure on Mathews to steal his customers. Peterson pointed out that Matl�ews still
has not made payments on the sanitary sewers. Mayor Cuda also stated that the residents need
to get more organized. Apparently the water company is worth something to T.P. Mathews.
� Peterson said the residents need to write letters and put pressure on him. It has to be consistent
w�th reports o�i violations and make his life miserable. The residents have to do it on an ongoing
basis, rather than just when there are shortage problems.
Baird pointed out there is no real enforcement by the EPA. The EPA becomes responsive when
pressure is put on them.
Bolger asked if anyone has talked with T.P. Mathews. Peterson responded that TP expresses
interest and then never gets back to us. Bolger asked if there would be any objection if l�e
contacted TP. He thought he might be able to get somewhere with him. Batt said that it
couldn't hurt anything. Peterson suggested that Bolger and Baird meet with the IEPA officials.
It might be wise to have residents available at the meeting. Baird requested that our attorney
look over the file and get a legal view of the situation before we meet with the IEPf1. The more
pressure we put on them the better it will be. Peterson said the Illinois Pollution Control Board
hears the testimony.
Alderman Baird wanted to know what happens if we start a process and he shuts it down. Batt
replied that the EPA would move in and operate the system. It was suggested that Leonard
Lindstrotn be contacted. Baird further stated that this is a problem we need to correct. It is very
important and he is going to work with the people in his ward so they can drink their water.
Mayor Cuda pointed out that a lot of residents are on wells and the water is stained, which has
necessitated these people going out an buying a filtering system. We need to treat everyone the
same. What happens if our wells go bad?
�
Mayor Cuda stated that he wasn't sure we could reach an agreement with Mathews. He feels we
� need to make it a "pain in the butt" for him to continue to operate.
Chairman Bc�lger ended by saying that we should start by meeting with the EPA and contact T.P.
Mathews an�i his boys. Baird stated that he needs assistance in designing information with
addresses and what people need to do and the steps that need to be taken to get the proper
documentatic�n. Baird reiterated that one of his goals is to alleviate some of the problems tlze
people are e::periencing out there with regard to water.
Motion by Baird to adjourn and seconded by Bolger. The meeting adjourned at 9:35 P.M.
Respectfully submitted,
�.�.,�-�e_, /�;�.�,-�
Carol Holian
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NOTICE TO ALL ATT�ftDEES
Please print your name and address below. If you wish to receive a copy of the report
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